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 "Self Proclaimed"???
Author: Elie Cramer 
Date:   2006-01-19 19:06:31

At least get your facts right He was in fact the first offical ACE fighter pilot of the VN war. I understand that dosen't mean anything to an @!#$ like yourself, but as someone who also fought there, it matters to me.
To do what he and his back seater did, on just one day, makes him a hero to a whole lot of his fellow Americans.

 Re: "Self Proclaimed"???
Author: Paul 
Date:   2006-01-20 16:33:29

There you have it, David get factual. David, you know that Elie did not want to hear the facts. Did not want to read the lies that Dandy told his constituents . . . a bald face lie on June 23, 2005.


So now what Elie? How about this letter that he sent out and then consider his criminal convictions that show the activities that he discussesses in tha letter in far different lights . . .

Nice work David . . .

 Re: "Self Proclaimed"???
Author: Paul 
Date:   2006-01-20 21:43:08

Elie - actually Cunningham was not the first Ace of the Vietnam war. Two (2) NVAF pilots hold that distinction. They both made Ace before Cunningham and kept flying after achieving Ace status. One finally topped ou at 11 or 12 victories and the other at 9, I believe. Both were regimential commanders in the NVAF.

It is believed that Cunningham shot down one of them in his last engagement where he was credited with his 5th victory

Elie . . . you still out there? (Damb, I hate it when the mouse just lays there and doesn't move or play anymore!

 Re: "Self Proclaimed"???
Author: David Dickey 
Date:   2006-01-23 06:23:11

When he became an Ace, Elie, you were right. He had Willie Driscoll sitting in the back seat.

His other memorable deeds were all done solo. Maybe if Willie had been looking over his shoulder he would have kept his nose clean.

 Re: "Self Proclaimed"???
Author: Paul 
Date:   2006-01-23 09:08:31

Oh, well said, David!

 Re: "Self Proclaimed"???
Author: R. Middlemas 
Date:   2006-01-23 09:48:36

"Once again in to the breech, dear friends."


Elie, as I have posted elsewhere in this forum:

Question: What does Mr. Cunningham's war record have to do with his present day events?
Short answer: Nothing. They are (should be) mutually exclusive. As in:
- Was he a gifted aviator? Yes.
- Was a war ace? Yes.
- Did he have amazing abilities? Yes.
- Did he break several laws? Yes.
- Did he feel that he was above the law? In most cases, Yes.
- Did he get greedy? Yes.
- Was he too stupid to be effective in a large way at anything outside of the cockpit? Yes.

These are the facts and most are undisputed.

Isn't the real rub here, Elie, that you have had one of your heros taken down by his own stupid actions? Isn't it true that you feel betrayed by a person you once (and evidently still do) respected?

You attack and insult as a result of your hurt feelings and blame the people who knew the truth all along or had the ability to connect the dots.

Just so you know, if Randy had been a Democrat, I would feel exactly the same way about him. It is not the ideology that is the issue, but his CORRUPT ACTIONS .

What is most egregious here is that he IS a war ace. That he felt he was above the laws that he fought to protect. As a citizen warrior, didn't he have even more reason to uphold and adhere to the very principles and ideas and laws that he fought to protect?

It appears that he felt he was above all that and could do as he pleased.

Now, Elie, please poke holes in these issues and put the insults to rest.

And I have also stated in other post on this forum that I have never served my country in uniform. Please take this into consideration when you craft your penetrating and brilliant response to this man's post.

I don't expect Elie to respond in any event. He/she got it out of their system, spewed their hate and probably won't be back as, I suspect, thoughtful reflection and reasoned argument is quite simply beyond him/her. But one can hope...

 Re: "Self Proclaimed"???
Author: David Dickey 
Date:   2006-01-23 10:00:46

I suspect if Rep. Cunniingham had been a Democrat Elie would have had him on a skewer over a hot fire.

 Re: "Self Proclaimed"???
Author: Paul 
Date:   2006-01-24 17:21:50

Elie - He betrayed you.

Well who are the conservatives and who are the liberals here? You Elie or those that post here.

Well, Elie, you are a &%$@@# Liberal! You want to let him off the hook for some reason (his Aceness) that has nothing to do with the criminal acts.

We, that post here, are the wonderful, god fearing, loved by god conservatives. Dandy broke the law and we say, "Hang Him High!"

Elie, I bet that no one has ever accused you ever of being a warm hearted, fuzzing thinking &%$@@# Liberal before! Welcome, Elie to the warm, fuzzy side, give us a big hug!

 Re: "Self Proclaimed"???
Author: David Dickey 
Date:   2006-01-24 19:08:31

Paul. There you go again. Take your tongue out of your cheek.

 Re: "Self Proclaimed"???
Author: Paul 
Date:   2006-01-24 20:17:24



But you know, me and Dandy do have something in common, we love hugs from the wimmins! . . . . now where did I put that lava lamp??? From LT. fighter pilot to Senior Fleet Ensign black shoe, go find me a lava lamp, and be quick about it!

 Re: "Self Proclaimed"???
Author: David Dickey 
Date:   2006-01-25 11:54:11

"Elie Cramer" - I Googled you. I know now from where you are coming.

Are you a PC gamer Ace yet?

 Re: "Self Proclaimed"???
Author: Paul 
Date:   2006-01-25 12:27:34

OMG - A Groupie. I still want a hug though!

Raz - Yeah, you and I both miss the Navy a ton! You missed the 1MC message that never won our hearts - "Now set the special sea and anchor detail." God, I loved that one . . .

 Re: "Self Proclaimed"???
Author: John 
Date:   2006-01-26 11:01:42

Good for Elie Cramer for serving in Vietnam. But if that is Elie's only strange basis for distinguishing between people of good or evil, then Elie will surely enjoy this database:


 Re: "Self Proclaimed"???
Author: Paul 
Date:   2006-01-26 14:03:03

Well if Elie, our right wing knee jerk conservative ‘publican, thinks a person has to have served in Vietnam to be a good person and to be admired, then please remember that our president, vice president and sec of def did not. As a matter of fact, our vice president got 5 deferments. I know of no one that got 5 deferments . . . except the Prince of Darkness.

Come on Elie, strike back! Lash us . . . then give us all a hug!

 Re: "Self Proclaimed"???
Author: David Dickey 
Date:   2006-01-26 16:46:53

Elie ain't coming back. You're supposed to pick battles small enough to win and big enough to matter. He did neither. He %#@•ed with a dump truck and got run over.

He might want to try to hug himself.

 Re: "Self Proclaimed"???
Author: Paul 
Date:   2006-01-26 18:15:24

Elie is a cross dresser? Jeeze, I thought that he/she be a wimmins! Elie, forget the hug OK?

Yeah, David, he/she did kinda get run over by the facts and the truth . . . .

 Re: "Self Proclaimed"???
Author: Paul 
Date:   2006-01-27 05:05:02

A reach-around, least we can do you would think . . . Not!

Man, there was no way to do an "equipment check" on he/she, without Google, like we could do in Po City, right Rax!

 Re: "Self Proclaimed"???
Author: David Dickey 
Date:   2006-01-27 06:05:26

I wish he would come out and play.

 Re: "Self Proclaimed"???
Author: John 
Date:   2006-01-19 20:37:37

And to do what the ace has done in recent years makes him a self-admitted criminal of stunning proportion!

Apparently that doesn't mean anything to you. But as a law-abiding citizen who also fought in Vietnam, and as one with a great respect for the law and ethics, it matters to me. . . a great deal.

Now, are those facts straight enough for you?

 Re: "Self Proclaimed"???
Author: Paul 
Date:   2006-01-19 22:19:36

Sorry Elie, being an Ace does not relieve him of criminal responsibility.

Forget us, read what outstanding MiG killers, Mugs and “Fingers” Ensch, decorated and from day one respected Naval Aviators from the Vietnam War have to say about him. Elie, if you are such a MiG killer groupie, why is Mugs called “Mugs” and Jack Ensch called “Fingers?”

If he was such a hero to the Navy, why has Tailhook and the Navy cut him lose. Why have they not come out with a defense as you have?

Read Elie . . . and this is from a conservative newspaper . . . so you will love it otherwise . . . .


Being an Ace is a measure of excellent flying ability, not character. Taking bribes, suborning his elected office, failing his constituents . . . mostly knee jerk rightest 'publicans like you, that is a measure of his character.

Elie, you right wing zealot, he failed YOU!

Paul Everyman

 Re: "Self Proclaimed"???
Author: David Dickey 
Date:   2006-01-20 11:06:01

So Elie—-


Click on the above link and travel back to a moment in time (June 23, 2005)and read what Rep. Cunningham wrote to his constituents about the "allegations" against him.

Fast forward to Nov. 28, 2005 and read the plea agreement (see link below) he signed and see if you see any conflicts in the plea agreement vs. the June 23rd letter.


He will always be an Ace for what he did for our country in Viet Nam.

But his arrogance, greed, and hypocrisy will be his legacy for the disgrace he brought upon his office.

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